How Minimalism Can Relieve Stress and Anxiety & Support Your Mental Health With Katy Joy Wells

How Minimalism Can Relieve Stress and Anxiety & Support Your Mental Health With Katy Joy Wells

You might be thinking, here we go with the woo-woo talk. And trust me, I get it! But decluttering your life can go a LONG way in supporting your mental health. And there's actually science that shows how clutter and an excess of things directly affects your mental health and can actually increase cortisol levels (+ stress/anxiety)!

Katy Joy Wells is a mom, a declutter expert, a podcaster, and a simplifier. And through her own journey with anxiety and depression, she was led to minimalism and was able to see just how much freedom she could experience through simplifying her life. And now, Katy loves to help people to let go of their clutter, and get present, so they can actually focus on what truly matters!

In this episode, we dive into:

– Katy's journey with anxiety and depression and how it led her to minimalism

– Decluttering your life in practical terms

– What clutter does to your mental health

– Why we fill our homes and our spaces with stuff

– How clutter can be a distraction from feeling our emotions

– How to be more mindful when purchasing things

– How to start simplifying to improve your mental health

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#minimalism #anxietytips #anxietytools

so whether it's minimalism that resonates in your version and creating your own definition or simplifying you know use it as a vehicle to get to where you want to go in life and for so many people Janet that's Freedom it's Freedom it's freedom from this Chokehold of your time of your head space like I remember coming home after a long day's work and just being like I have nothing left welcome to a healthy push podcast I'm Shannon Jackson former anxiety sufferer turned Adventure mom and anxiety recovery coach I struggled with anxiety panic disorder and agoraphobia for 15 years and now I help people to push past the stuff that I used to struggle with each week I'll be sharing real and honest conversations along with actionable and practical steps that you can take to help you push past your anxious thoughts the symptoms panic and fears welcome you're right where you're meant to be all right today on a healthy push podcast I have Katie with me and Katie is a minimalist and she talks all things that I love on this topic so I am so excited to chat with her so welcome Katie to the podcast thank you so much for having me Shannon one big reason I got into teaching people how to simplify their lives and you know declutter their homes is because I used to have really really bad anxiety and so when I found your podcast and when I found your channel I was like okay well we need to connect because simplifying my home was one of the um you know biggest things I did outside of kind of traditional things to decrease anxiety that really made a huge difference in my mental health so excited to be here yeah oh I'm excited to dive into all of it and I I knew just from looking at your Instagram that you had struggled with some anxiety but I can't wait to dive in more and into that because that'll resonate with a lot of people so how about we just start with who are you what do you do simple enough so uh you know first and foremost I'm a mom my sons are now five and seven um and like I said uh you know I used to struggle with anxiety a lot of um you know hindsight 2020 I didn't realize at the time but I was after my first son was born so seven years ago I was having um really bad chronic anxiety and um didn't know what to do with it right it was every single day I kind of woke up it felt like Groundhog Day I had a lot to be grateful for you know I had a healthy son um I had a lot of things to be grateful for but and that kind of made the anxiety made me feel guilty about having anxiety I don't know if maybe you ever felt that but it's like oh I should be happy I have all these resources and tools and things available to me yeah I'm still struggling maybe that's a whole different conversation um but anyway you really went through early motherhood good in this fog like many many moms do and um I I kind of felt like I really struggled being present and a big part of that was because we had so much stuff in our house and so I did what a lot of people do I looked for podcasts and books and different tools to help me but what I found was really lacking in that space was getting to the root of clutter to begin with a lot of it was superficial like what room to start in or here's a checklist right but I was so overwhelmed and paralyzed with things that I had 80 free printables and like a whole Pinterest board on how to declutter but I still couldn't move the needle and um one day after my second son was born we were involved in a head-on collision and my husband broke his neck he broke his sternum and ended up needing neck surgery and for the immediate probably six hours after that car accident I wasn't sure if he was going to survive and I remember thinking I'm already struggling as a mom as a parent as a human being how am I going to do this how am I going to make this work with this chronic anxiety and depression without a husband and it was really one of those moments where I I recognized coming home from the hospital that day I walked into my home and I truly sought for what it was it was a time suck it was literally distracting me from everything important to me taking care of my kids showing up as the Mom I wanted to show up as being a a decent maybe even better you know uh partner to my husband and I said now is the time to fix this problem I don't have more time to kick the can down the road like I have to be here to support my husband on his healing I'm going to be kind of single parenting for a while over his almost six month recovery and um that was kind of the point of no return for me and I'm telling you what it changed my life once I finally committed to the process changed my life and so now that's why I do what I do yeah yeah and I love what you do so simply put right you help people declutter their lives and I think there's so many immense benefits but I want to back up for a second because you said a couple of things that's so good right that a lot of people do think I have everything to be grateful for I shouldn't be feeling anxious you know I don't quite understand why I'm having all this anxiety like there's so much good in my life I have so many good things going on and that is something that so many people struggle with because it's like we just can't allow ourselves to be human right like sure you're struggling with anxiety that's okay you know just because your life looks a certain way and you're happy that doesn't mean that this emotion you know can't pop up and so I'm glad that you said that because I think that's something that a lot of people can relate to and I'm also glad that you talk about you know this sort of non-traditional approach to a mental health problem which is you know you know all the traditional therapies I'm sure you know like me you went to therapy you learned a lot of tools like you said but some of the out of the box approaches and some of the more non-traditional things really do end up helping a lot and this is something that helped me immensely too in my own life so I love that you know this is something that you now help people with because you saw the direct you know immediate benefits maybe not immediate but you know the immense benefits of making all these changes so can you talk me through like where did you even start I I I tell the story often because it's it's a regret but it's a learning experience so um and I'm not totally not knocking this method Marie kondo I mean her book I think was the Catalyst for like you know decluttering it's helped millions of people but I think you know when I picked it up at that point I had two kids under two and I was so inspired I was like yes clutter's causing all this stress in my life and this makes so much sense and okay I have to tackle my entire I'm gonna tackle my entire wardrobe so one weekend because I worked full time so it was a Saturday my husband was working so I was home alone with the kids I had my baby strapped to me my toddler next to me and I was like I want to tackle my wardrobe and I spent six hours with on and off screaming kids nursing the baby and I got rid of like I don't know three or four big black garbage bags of things and I'm telling you it was so stressful and um yes I made progress but I was like that was a moment too where I was like I can't do this I can't do this all the time like you know I have to do this throughout my whole house and I was like this isn't practical for me and part of that was like I think I just wanted an excuse not to move forward but also it's like it's not practical for you know a lot of people to find these huge chunks of time consistently in their schedule to make this progress and I was like okay this isn't gonna work I need to I need to figure out how to make make it work for me and um so again it was a learning experience that really impacted the way I crafted a lot of my strategies which is just going back to Habit and behavior change which really any lifestyle is about right it's not about like you know I I used to only declutter typically before that moment it was like kind of like the rage cleaning maybe you've heard like you know like you get home and the house is a pig Stein you're like right and then like once or twice a year I would do this rage decluttering where it's like I'm getting rid of everything and I have these big purges once maybe twice a year and I'd feel so good but then like that's it right and then the clutter's building I'm not putting habits or systems in place I'm not continuing I'm not working on my relationship with stuff or getting to the root is all very surface level and so you I I guess really learning from all those different mistakes is I mean it was a godsend and so um I you'll see that work through a lot of the content I create for like Instagram my podcast my YouTube channel and on my online programs as well I want to tell you about something that I recently discovered and I absolutely love Branch Basics I'm so excited to share this with you because Branch Basics offers non-toxic cleaning products that actually work and this is something that I can get behind because I truly believe that toxins can negatively contribute to our physical and our mental health and I'm a huge fan of ditching the toxins and living as naturally as possible because these products are non-toxic fragrant free and pure it really makes me feel safe and at peace with what I'm using inside of our home and I use these products on everything I'm talking countertops laundry floors toilets and even in the dishwasher so if you're wanting to make the switch and toss the toxins check out Branch Basics and use code a healthy push at checkout for 15 off or just grab the link in the show notes I love love that you said it's about habit and behavior change because that is so much too of just anxiety recovery mental health recovery all of it like you've got to be aware of your actions and behaviors you've got to work to change them because really like doing you know these you know binging sessions of like I'm gonna get rid of things and I'm gonna organize and like it's you know not practical but also too not sustainable and that are you really changing the underlying cause and the reason why you know you're having to do all these things maybe twice or three times a year and so I am so curious like I know I understand like a lot of the benefits of decluttering because I've done a lot of this work myself but like I know you talk about it's a huge Stress and Anxiety reliever but like what are some other benefits of decluttering I did want to mention too because some people think like oh that's just her opinion because she noticed it stressed her out but there's been countless studies on the correlation between mental health and clutter over the years and actually one of the first ones I read when I started decluttering was one that was done back in 2016 by UCLA where um people in the study who describe their homes as either cluttered or messy had higher levels of cortisol and normally when we wake up in the morning or even throughout our day like cortisol can kind of go up and down but these people who describe their homes as cluttered or messy their cortisol stayed High throughout the day and when that and that's a stress hormone and so when that happens when it stays high that typically throws most people into like this low-grade Perpetual fight or flight right you probably talk a lot about that on your show like the system designed to help us survive right if there's a lion or a bear behind me I live in the mountains of North Carolina I saw a black bear the other day like 50 yards for me I felt right that Skyrocket my heart jumped through my throat I was like oh my gosh right now imagine not quite that high but a low grade version of that kind of in this background right if you have a million tabs open in your phone your your phone starts to work slower your computer starts to work slower it just starts to slow you down and it impacts you on a mental health level you know with depression anxiety stress levels and also physiologically right when that when that cortisol stays high that can impact like blood pressure heart rate I mean cause acne fatigue weight gain all kinds like a whole host of other health issues and with with clutter I don't necessarily think for a lot of people it's like the main cause of anxiety but it's like the nail in the coffin right maybe you come home from work after a long day and the first thing you see when you walk through your front door is like a pile of random junk you're tripping over shoes right there's clutters all over the counter you have to make dinner and it's going to take 30 minutes to clear all this junk off right it's just it's constant and so um so there is a lot of data that drives the point of they are definitely correlated as far as other benefits from streamlining and simplifying um you know your space you're looking at more time and more energy clutter basically tells our brains there is more work to be done so a great analogy would be like imagine you get to your end of your day you had a busy long day don't we all every day it seems like you you sit down you get ready to turn on your favorite show and now imagine like your partner or a family member walks in and goes what are you doing get off the couch you have more work to be done there's this to do we got to do this this this this all right clutter and mess do that they speak to us and our brains recognize that actually there's uh studies that show even when we're sleeping if we're sleeping in a cluttered room our brain knows it and it impacts our quality of sleep and so people who um this used to be me have that room where you just throw everything into and shut the door and go you know what out of sight out of mind not true that's I'm the bearer of bad news today in that way um but gosh I mean increase time and energy when we have less stuff to manage to clean to work around to reorganize we've got more time a more ability to be productive and focused and be present which is one thing especially as a new mom I really craved and wanted and I still do seven years later but clutter right it's that it's that nagging voice like you sit down with the kids and it's like oh better go do this better go do this chore you're getting behind the the piles are the piles are building and so I had to tell my kids all the time you know I'm sorry Mommy can't play right now and you know after saying that multiple times throughout the day every single day just so I can deal with stuff it's pretty heartbreaking and so it really impacted you know my relationship with my kids too and so I mean literally you could you could there's so many different varieties and benefits to decluttering that those are just a few of the uh you know ways that stood out and continue to stand out for me yeah oh I love that you shared so that the big things that resonate with me right are the time like I'm always looking for oh can I get you know not more time in my day because you can't get more time but like how can I create you know more time in my day where i'm not doing doing and like like you said I can't play with you because I have to go do laundry I have to do dishes I have to pick up you know all those things like how can I save time and like that is so precious and you know I think when you realize that having less means you have less cleaning and less upkeep that like oh my goodness like how much time you can gain back and you I think like you know we've all been there when we go through this process that you're like is this really going to make that much of a difference right like is this really gonna help me but then you create these habits right you really change your behaviors and you create these habits and it's just like oh my goodness what was I doing for you know years and it's the time thing and then it's also being present right like whoa I finally have more time to be present but also when I'm doing things and interacting like I'm actually here like I'm not thinking about all the other things that I have to do and those two things like I I say of course always especially as a mom like those are such big gifts that I always want to be present I always want the time with my daughter so it's like the benefits are just immense and I'm glad that you hit on those two things because I think that's really important and two I I've read in one of your posts and you worded it so well that like it just gives you more head space and I would love to hear you to say about that because I think people don't realize like the Clutter and the impact that it has on you mentally with all the things that you have going on there yeah definitely I think I and this was me too most people realize how intricately connected we are to our environments and when you change your environment you know such as surrounding yourself with different people well we can't always do that right with our families or our co-workers but or you know even spending time in spacious uncluttered rooms or even like a clear work desk right if you're listening to this episode at work today like are your thoughts and emotions change and I think that's a really really powerful thing and one thing I did want to bring up and this was something I didn't learn until well into my declutter journey is that people often can see like listening to this conversation or learning about clutter like oh yeah I can see how clutter is preventing me from you know taking time for myself at the end of the day or it's impacting my relationships or it's sucking my time in my head space all this all these different things but on the flip side right clutter's a distraction from the good things on the flip side it's also a distraction from like I'll call them the bad things but it's not always bad like anxiety right depression and I think a big part of subconsciously why I never started to declutter was because I knew once I started to declutter first of all I'd have to get to the roots of my clutter and a big part of that for me was shopping impulse shopping and a route to that was resentment shame I was unhappy I was depressed right and then you have the roots of those and I was like oh this I can I can see where this could go so instead of handling the roots and having this opportunity for healing and growth I literally just you know continued to fill my home with clutter so it would just distract me from Pain grief all those emotions that you know most human beings just want to run and hide from and so I want to offer that to your listeners who might be like oh that's me right that's me yeah oh that uh okay that's so good it's so good because I think two like I my brain was just going to the place of like often times when you're struggling with something like anxiety you might try to also create all these distractions and kind of keep yourself constantly going going like if I have things to clean if I have laundry to do if I have all these tasks then it kind of gives me that opportunity to not feel anxious right and it it's funny and ironic because those are sort of the things that keep you going that constantly keep your brain on that's like you said you know you have this like cortisol that's kind of running at this even you know higher than what you would like level constantly because you're just keeping your brain going all the time so that's such a good point too because I know I did that as well but much like you I knew once I started to do this work it was gonna uncover more than just me like getting rid of things and not buying things impulsively and like there were my much deeper things going on and those things can be really really hard to tackle right like who like you said you know you don't want to face the hard emotions they're they're sort of easier to just be like I'm gonna cover that up and pretend you're not there right right however with mental clutter and physical clutter right yeah yeah so I love how you said you know impulsive shopping is that so I know that there are so many reasons right why people have clutter and that's a big one I think you know why why do we impulsively buy things like why do we fill our homes with a bunch of stuff like why do we clutter our environments um well I there are a lot of reasons I would say definitely culture is a big thing you know we've been we've been consumers since we were watching Saturday morning cartoons do you remember when that was a thing right and advertisements would come on I'd be like Mom I have to have that toy right that's so cool she'd be like you already have one I'd be like but it's not pink I have a blue one and it's just we are sold this idea that in order to be happy we need to look a certain way we need to address a certain way right this American dream we need a big home an expensive car we need to keep up with the Joneses and then add in the different pains and experiences we have in life and not learning how to in a helpful or healthy way cope with grief sadness depression mental health issues and so I mean hop on Instagram within seconds and I'm sure you know there's influencers out there I follow a few of them mostly just for research and development like you know here's a here's a haul I just bought like 20 New pieces from this company and it's like oh I'll take all those right and then ah there's just there's so many reasons and I think it's just again it all serves as a distraction and it I think honestly like the world just wants to put us in this trance like so many of us we just walk through life and we're just so unaware and unconscious of our thoughts of what's driving our thoughts of who who's selling us on what that day I mean we see gosh I forget the stat but on average it's like thousands tens of thousands of advertisements a day increa and increase that if you spend a lot of time on social media which most people do um you know follow the money right you know if if these platforms don't have our time they don't get our money and um so I think asking different questions like what are my thoughts what's happening in my physical environment when I'm tempted to hop on Instagram and go check out my favorite influencer and see what she's selling that day what's happening in my physical environment am I spending time at work when I typically want to impulse shop and my work desk is crazy cluttered and I'm stressed and I'm trying to avoid this project I don't want to start what's happening in my mental environment what are different thoughts or emotions that I'm feeling when I want to tap add to cart or when I want to so desperately get out of the house and run to Target and just buy something to get that dopamine hit and that distraction and I think very quickly you'll see a pattern and be able to identify the root and Maybe Roots right it's like a weed it goes deeper and deeper you can chop it off at the ground level quite quite easily for a lot of people but right what happens the weed grows back the next day and so I think there's so much value in um embracing the journey and um just bringing in the awareness back into your life and into different reasons why you've got clutter to begin with including maybe shopping more than you would like to right yeah and I like I was just thinking you know as you're talking too it's not just about decluttering your space right because I think that's a lot of what we hear and a lot of the messaging and you know for me a big part of the journey too is like taking a look at my actions and behaviors I.E like how much I'm spending time looking on social media and watching TV and like all these things that you know aren't really adding a whole lot of value and really like are things that I don't even actually want to be doing but like I'm just doing them to try to avoid and distract and like you know not face things that would be you know we think easier not to face so I think to you hit on something really good and it's something that you know really makes me cringe and I know that you know the influencers face it has some perks and you know it makes sense but it's it's so hard because I see you know of course how much we're being sold to and you know some people ask me sometimes Shannon like you know do you think that you you'd ever have like sponsors or you know I never see you selling anything and I'm like yeah it's because I don't you know I'm not much of a consumer but I also don't want to be like selling you things that I like there's not much value in this like you know why you're why are you really wanting this like stopping to pause like you said and saying you know do I actually need this do I actually want this like what is the intention what is the purpose in me buying this and I think giving yourself that time to pause and just check in like goes a really long way because often time it is just that we want that quick dopamine hit like you said this will make me feel good like this will bring me joy yeah maybe for right like the time that you walk to the mailbox and go get it and then the first couple hours that you have this thing and then you forget about it and you're like on to the next thing what's the next thing I can buy and another thing too I think when we're purchasing things it's not like oh it's like yes specialist to say I got a new pair of shoes we're not really buying a new pair of shoes for a lot of us we're buying a story we're buying Persona we're buying thoughts we're buying feelings right hey if I buy these shoes and next time I'm with my friends I'm gonna wear them and they're going to be like where'd you get those cute shoes like they're gonna envy that they're gonna like that about me I'm gonna be cooler or um you know my status will go up if people see me in these shoes or if I buy this thing and um or I'll feel a certain way or I'll be closer to this Idol whoever that is for you that doesn't always need to be spun in a bad way maybe your idol is some I don't know self-development expert and so you read a biography about this person you're like oh I want to be I want to be like this person so what do we do we find out how they go about their day we find out what actions they take what time they wake up in the morning what what do they have for breakfast what's their nighttime routine look like right anyone we idolize and want to be like that's kind of the next step right but I think a lot of us fall into the Trap of idolizing maybe the wrong people for the wrong reasons and that's where you get trapped in right what that person values you will learn to Value which means that's going to impact literally every decision you make throughout the day how you spend your time what you buy what brands you buy how often you buy how much you spend a month on clothing the next home you purchase all those things and so again I think it's just about pausing slowing down and going do I even really want this or have I just somehow accidentally caught caught on to this person's values and hey you know I actually don't really care I already have two pairs of shoes I love them they work great I don't really care if my friends don't like them because I like them and and and just moving on with your life and focusing on things that actually truly matter and will move the needle when it comes to your mental health when it comes to your contentment when it comes to your happiness I mean that's all I got uh no I step off my soapbox there right it's so good but it is you know slowing down pausing it goes a long way in general in life with many many things but I think it really can prevent us from adding more things into our lives that just end up taking more mental space they end up taking you know more time they end up taking more presence away from us like all these things that we really actually want and would get us to the place that we want to be where we're feeling more peaceful where we're feeling more joyful so it's like funny you know when um I can't remember who said it I'm not going to nail it exactly but you know the whole idea of minimalism right isn't like I'm gonna get rid of all my things I'm never gonna buy anything like I'm never gonna have anything nice it's not that you know for me like when this person said it's really about creating more of what I want in life right like more peace more freedom more joy and that was what really resonated with me and that's what got me on board with this whole decluttering and minimalism because I was like yes I want more peace like I want to feel less anxious I want to be happy more like I want all these things and then you know when I started making more conscious choices and really slowing down and changing behaviors I was like oh my Lord like this stuff is not so hard right like I am actually feeling less anxious I am actually more present like it's wild and I mean I'm talking about it now it still surprises me but it's like it's not that hard but it is you know when actually you're going through it yeah yeah you're very right I I think you might be referencing Joshua Becker there he's great I highly recommend his books he says something like minimalism is the like conscious removal of um you know things that aren't adding to your life so you can focus on what really matters right and that looks different for everyone and that's why you know people get so caught up in the term minimalism and what it is and what it's not and the truth is you know it takes on really deep personal definitions for everybody and you know I'm not someone who's like you can only have two pairs of shoes you have to live in a tiny house you can I mean some people are like I see questions on Minimalist forums like they'll post a picture of their living room and ask everyone they'll be like is this minimalist enough and I'm like dude you're asking the wrong question and why does that matter what other people think and you won't believe the comments oh no it's too cluttered you need to get rid of that one photo hanging on your wall because a true minimalist would do XYZ or design it I'm just like this is not the group for me and so after a while I just kind of started saying simplifying right because everyone can kind of understand that term and there's not so many invisible constructs around the word simplifying um so whether it's minimalism that resonates in your version and creating your own definition or simplifying you know use it as a vehicle to get to where you want to go in life and for so many people Shannon that's Freedom it's Freedom it's freedom from this Chokehold of your time of your headspace like I remember coming home after a long day's work and just being like I have nothing left and I have my kids who I want to pay attention to and I also have all this clutter everywhere that's sucking my time and energy and so Freedom you know having more peace and having more silence and having more time to heal there's so much Freedom that comes along with it and it really doesn't matter what Avenue you take to get there so I guess some gentleness for some people who might be listening and going well if I want to adopt the minimalist lifestyle it sounds too extreme for me it doesn't have to be that way yeah oh and what you just said so good like more time to heal it yes absolutely a thousand percent right like it gives you more time to focus on the things that will actually bring you the bigger benefits so right now if somebody's listening and they're like all right Katie you've maybe convinced me a little bit like I'd like to do some decluttering some simplifying maybe this minimalist life like is intriguing I know it can be really really hard and overwhelming like you said so where can somebody just start like what is some advice that you would give somebody if they're like oh I'm interested I think if they're already really have been practicing that awareness whether it's to help heal anxiety or stress or depression or whatever it is bringing that awareness into how you feel in your physical environment how do you feel in your home how do you how does it make you feel when you get home from work or when you maybe you spend all day there maybe you're a stay-at-home mom or whatever that is like how do you feel in different spaces in your house how do you feel when you go into your bedroom at night to lay down does it make you stressed does it make you right are there piles of clothes in the corner calling your name um how do you feel when you wake up how does it feel when you open your dresser to get dressed are there clothes busting out of your dresser or your walk-in closet can you easily find what you need uh there are so many different nuances to how decluttering can save you time but bringing awareness into like what's happening in your headspace as you go throughout your day you're like actually I actually took notes in my phone and I was like annoyed for like a split second here here here and that added up to like a thousand different pin pin Pricks right and okay I can see maybe where um how throughout my entire day it's bothering me so after you bring in the awareness to the situation I think just taking action so many people and this was me too we think I just need the perfect strategy the perfect method the perfect Guru or whatever but honestly it we just need to be consistent and like I said in the beginning it goes back to Habit and behavior change and none of that happens unless you take action right you can read a book you can listen to the podcast but if you're just like that's great information and never take action your life isn't going to change and so starting small like 10 minutes a day and starting with like a clutter hot spot like a spot in your home that you've been passing maybe you pass it multiple times a day and you're like oh that's really annoying I've been meaning to handle that but I'm too busy right it's been 10 minutes going through that putting stuff away and getting rid of the Clutter right that's your knee-jerk reaction is this is excess I don't need it it's Gotta Go um and make that simple 10 minutes a day a habit it's life-changing and what's fun and Incredibly satisfying about decluttering is that it continues to pay dividends in the long run and so one mistake people make though is that they let's just say declutter for a week 10 minutes a day and then they're like I'm kind of feeling the benefits but then and they're excited about it but they lose momentum right life happens their kid gets sick they're whatever they gotta go travel right and then they come home they they drop that habit it happens to us all right we are so excited to adopt this new thing and then let me look at New Year's resolutions right most of them are done by February 18th uh or whatever date that is and so I think just giving yourself Grace it doesn't have to be perfect in understanding that progress is never linear and sticking with it most people give up like I said before I mean the benefits continue to grow and before they kind of hit that threshold where they're like oh right like I'm really noticing this now like daily chores are faster and all this stuff and so just sticking with it is a and taking action yeah consistency is so important all right Katie so people want to find and connect with you further where can they find you in all the goodness you have to offer oh come hang out with me definitely on the podcast the maximized minimalist and um I love Instagram That's my kind of platform of choice that's um you can find me under my full name which is Katie Joy Wells and then you can check out my website for any resources I've got free downloadables um hopefully you take action with those and they don't you know they're not collecting digital dust like they did for me many years ago and then I've got a whole host of online programs that can fit different needs depending on where you are in your declutter journey and what you need to awesome well thank you so much it's been so great and I know that this will be helpful to so many people so thank you Katie thanks Shannon and before I end this episode I want to mention that I'd really appreciate it if you shared this episode or any others with somebody who you feel could benefit from what I share here you sharing these episodes is what helps me to reach and support others who need it and if you have an extra minute in your day today I'd also really appreciate it if you could leave a rating and review over on Apple podcasts I read every single review and this too is what helps me to help more people to heal and overcome I hope you enjoyed this episode of a healthy push if you want more head on over to healthypush.com for the show notes and lots more tips tools and inspiration that will support your recovery and if you're hoping for me to cover a certain topic be sure to join my Instagram community at LD push and let me know in the comments what you want to hear next foreign

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