Peter Attia MD
Red light therapy: promising applications, mixed evidence, & impact on aging (AMA 65 sneak peek)
View show notes here: https://bit.ly/3Oc81k1
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In this “Ask Me Anything” (AMA) episode, Peter dives into the world of red light therapy in response to frequent questions from listeners. Peter provides a comprehensive exploration, starting with the basics of red light therapy and why it’s getting so much attention. The conversation examines the latest data on various applications, including aging, skin health, acne, wound healing, hair loss, eye health, exercise performance, metabolic health, weight loss, inflammation, injury recovery, and menstrual cramps. Peter analyzes the scientific literature on each use case and concludes with a summary table that provides an easy-to-follow breakdown of the potential benefits of red light therapy across these areas.
We discuss:
00:11 – Overview of topics and the motivation behind exploring red light therapy
01:42 – The basic science of red light therapy
05:13 – The unique penetration properties of red light
08:56 – What happens when tissue is exposed to red light
10:35 – Exploring red light therapy’s potential to combat aging
In the full episode, we also discuss:
-Red light therapy for treating acne
-Red light therapy for aiding in wound healing
-Red light therapy for hair loss: promising benefits and practical advice
-Analyzing the evidence of a positive or negative effect of red light therapy on the eyes
-Red light therapy’s impact on performance and recovery
-Red light therapy’s impact on metabolic health: analyzing the limited evidence for improved glucose metabolism
-Red light therapy for weight loss and targeted fat reduction
-Red light therapy for inflammation, chronic pain, and injury rehabilitation
-Red light therapy as a treatment for menstrual cramps
-Summary: promising applications of red light therapy, unsupported claims, and costs to consider
-More.
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About:
The Peter Attia Drive is a deep-dive podcast focusing on maximizing longevity, and all that goes into that from physical to cognitive to emotional health. With over 90 million episodes downloaded, it features topics including exercise, nutritional biochemistry, cardiovascular disease, Alzheimer’s disease, cancer, mental health, and much more.
Peter Attia is the founder of Early Medical, a medical practice that applies the principles of Medicine 3.0 to patients with the goal of lengthening their lifespan and simultaneously improving their healthspan.
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hey everyone welcome to the drive podcast I'm your host Peter [Music] AA Peter welcome to another AMA how you doing good thanks for having me back anytime anytime so today's AMA we are going to focus on a single topic which is red light therapy this is something we get asked about a lot not only questions from the website and subscribers but I know through your patience as well and so we compiled all these questions and through this conversation hopefully going to cover what red light therapy is how it can work Deep dive into some various claims out there around red light therapy this can include potential effect on skin Health wound healing hair loss eyesight exercise performance and Recovery metabolic Health fat loss inflammation chronic pain and a lot more so with all that said anything you want to add before we get rolling into it to unrelated things I noticed you have a little visitor uh for the podcast today hanging out with you there um so hope hopefully he's interested and this is something he'll like um and secondly I would add that this my wife is specifically asking me these questions so um she's uh very keen to buy a whole bunch of red light things and I asked her to just hold off until we did the research for this episode so that we could at least have a sense of of uh if there's uh if there's value there where it is I don't I don't know if she's a subscriber though so if she's not this might be the one that she subscribes for I I respect that when your wife asks you medical questions you say let me send you a podcast episode instead of telling her the answer like everyone else so it's good to know you practice what you preach even through your direct family um okay first question I think it's going to be helpful to just explain when we say red light therapy what does that even mean yeah um I I you you you can't do this without at least having some understanding of the physics and the principles that that Define light and waves come up over and over and over again as you try to evaluate the plausibility of the claims that are made here so um so when we're sitting here looking out at the world um we you know we're we're looking at uh light and it's there's visible colors of light right so what the and maybe I should take a step back right light um exists as uh waves um so the and they're very short waves to be clear right so so sound waves are really really long uh light waves are really really um short and then obviously waves can get much much shorter and you can get into UV which we've talked about in in detail on a previous podcast and then even shorter than that would be X-rays and then even shorter than that are gamma rays so as as light uh W as wavelengths get shorter the energy gets more uh powerful but if we just focus on light visible light runs the gamut from about 380 nanometers um which would be purple-ish and then all the way at the longest end about twice that 780 nanometers is where red light is so when people talk about red light therapy um they're mostly talking about light that is in that very narrow band so for example again a white light is giving you all you know mixed mixed across that entire range red light would be no more narrowly focused um it's also important to understand that and we'll talk about this a little bit today phototherapy in general involves wavelengths um across that entire band of visible light but it also includes something called near infrared um so um that basically runs the gamut from about 400 to 1100 nanm so um I think the easiest way to think about this is red light therapy which runs about 620 to 780 NM and then near infrared which is right adjacent to that the next thing up in terms of of length which is about 790 to 1,400 so again if you forget everything else just remember when people talk about red light therapy they're talking about wavelengths that are just in that red visible area of you know 620 to 780 and then often they talk about near infrared as well um which is not visible to be clear you don't see it um and it's just a little bit longer 790 to 1,400 nanometers this again we'll come back to this over and over again um because you know there are some um instances where the fact that you can't see it uh might actually make it a little more uh dangerous double clicking on red light therapy can we explain a little bit more about what is special about it and why there's so much emphasis on it as talked about for the various claims that we'll speak about today people who listened to our podcast on ultraviolet light may recall a distinction I made between UVA and UVB which came down to the degree of penetration and so similarly when you think about red light therapy um and you remember that the uh longer a wavelength the more it can penetrate albeit with less energy what makes red light interesting is it is sort of at this sweet spot where it has some capacity to penetrate at more so than other forms of visible light so so you you know that's that's sort of part of what makes this interesting now the exact depth that's reached by the red light or the near infrared is is kind of a function of um how the how the light beams are organized so um what is the amount of coherence which is how much do the wavelengths line up with each other so if if the wavelengths are all coherent in the exact same um uh uh the the Peaks and valleys are in the same place it's going to have more penetrant and and then what's the extent to which they're all aligned in the exact same direction uh that's called colation so in other words the light isn't spreading but rather it's all pointed in the exact same direction uh and then finally you have the intensity and we'll we'll talk a little bit about the difference between watts and jewels because if people are looking at these devices sometimes they give you information in watts and sometimes they give you information in jewels of course um there's a very clear relationship between them um and and of course but but broadly speaking energy matters as well so um when you take all of that into account though the really important principle that I think gets perhaps missed when people evaluate these things is that for the most part red light can't penetrate nearly as much as people think it can okay so if red light is being delivered by LEDs which is the most most common way that it is it's going to be able to penetrate about 2 to 3 millim um into skin um now um infrared light can go a little bit deeper because remember it's a longer wavelength and it can reach probably 5 to 10 millim now if red light is delivered by a laser because again you now have a more um focused uh form of of of laser of light energy it could penetrate significantly higher than that it could go from 1 to 4 cm so again keep keep in mind um the the way that the light um is organized plays a significant role in the depth that it can penetrate now um you know if you start to think about some of the applications we're going to talk about um when you start to think about red light therapy um just keep in the back of your mind if something can only penetrate 1 to three millimeters um it's going to be difficult for it to have some of the profound effects that um are sometimes claimed even if something can penetrate 10 millimet or a centimeter which would be quite deep um it's not clear that that's going to be able to have a significant effect and so as a general rule of thumb the more superficial the application the more plausible I think it's going to be as we go through these last foundational question before we get to to the various claims and where this could be beneficial or not is in general what happens when the tissue is exposed to red light this is an important and and as you said foundational question so to have any biologic effect the light needs to be absorbed by some photosensitive molecule within the cell or tissue that it's hitting um and so the absorption of Light by these photosensitive molecules which are called chromophores cause um a localized chemical change or a photochemical reaction now the most interesting of these is probably something called cytochrome C oxidase or CCO it's a component of the electron transport chain within mitochondria and generally speaking most people who are proponents of red light therapy point to cytochrome se oxidase or CC o as the main target and therefore the mediating uh effect of the biologic impact of red light so red light and near infrared wavelengths do seem to excite cytochrome um C oxidase um and its activity then increases subsequent uh ATP production uh conversely blue and green wavelengths remember these are shorter uh less penetrant but more powerful seem to decrease the activity of CCO uh and subsequently decrease ATP production now kind of getting into various claims of where red light therapy can be beneficial or not I think it' help to maybe start with what do we know about the idea that red light therapy can combat aging as a whole thank you for listening to today's sneak peek AMA episode of the drive if you're interested in hearing the complete version of this AMA you'll want to become a premium member it's extremely important to me to provide all of this content without relying on paid ads to do this our work is made entirely possible by our members and in return we offer exclusive member only content and benefits above and beyond what is available for free so if you want to take your knowledge of this space to the next level it's our goal to ensure members get back much more than the price of the subscription premium membership includes several benefits first comprehensive podcast show notes that detail every topic paper person and thing that we discuss in each episode and the word on the street is nobody's show notes rival hours second monthly ask me anything or AMA episodes these episodes are comprised of detailed responses to subscriber questions typically focused 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you can head over to Peter aam md.com SLS subscribe you can also find me on YouTube Instagram and Twitter all with the handle Peter AA MD you can also leave us a review on Apple podcasts or what ever podcast player you use this podcast is for General informational purposes only and does not constitute the practice of medicine nursing or other professional healthcare services including the giving of medical advice no doctor patient relationship is formed the use of this information and the materials linked to this podcast is at the users own risk the content on this podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice diagnosis or treatment users should not disregard or delay in obtaining medical advice from any medical condition they have and they should seek the assistance of their Healthcare Professionals for any such conditions finally I take all conflicts of interest very seriously for all of my disclosures and the companies I invest in or advise please visit Peter aam md.com slab where I keep an upto-date and active list of all disclosures
#Red #light #therapy #promising #applications #mixed #evidence #impact #aging #AMA #sneak #peek
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That was a waste of 13mins. Who still attempts to market like this with Ai answering everything now and other MDs making similar videos…
Basically a garbage paywall infomercial about their subscription instead of any definitive answers on red light therapy, absolutely disgusting
just curious. DO you believe there is enough evidence for you to endorse it benefits and hence people should practice like weight training….benefits of hatha yoga, Qigong, Taichi. IR is the evidence insufficent for your as a medical doc??? also differentiate diff wave lenghts and hence benefits or red light vs near infra red vs the full spectrum of early morning sunlight. Or not enough evidence for you???
What a waste of time. I doubt he knows much about it anyway. There's plenty of good free info on the internet.
@$$hole paywall
What about the eye… it has effect
I’ve been using it for quite a while and then my six days on the hairdresser I work hard at looking good. I had a scar on my face and I think I must’ve set too close or used it too many times because it caused my cheeks to be blood red and I have to back away. What am I missing?
They have started coming out against the things that help us such as this podcast. Not good info!!!
Attia says infrared light only goes 5-10 millimeters deep. Seems contrary to what other researchers citing studies indicate. I guess he is saying it’s from LED lights. Sunlight, other researchers have shared the infrared can penetrate as deep as 8cm. That’s a HUGE difference.
I am disappointed my this ‘come on” video. Kind of scammy.
say almost nothing
07:40 The doctor says red light from LEDs only penetrates 2-3 mm, while lasers can go up to 4 cm. So for at-home devices (which are mostly LED), can they really reach deep tissues as people hope? 🤔
👉 Has anyone tried it for skin or muscle pain? Or is it just a surface-level effect? 👇
So frustrating to listen to 13 minutes only to be required to subscribe to hear the conclusion. They should tell you upfront that you need to subscribe. SCUMMY!!!
That feeling when you learn more from comments in 60 seconds than the video.
The sun is the ultimate source of energy for Earth. Humans have evolved with sunlight for millions of years. Direct use of sunlight is literally baked into our genome. The chances of near-infrared light being of no benefit to us — because double-blind clinical trials cannot be done — is literally zippo, nada, null, goose eggs. Pharma, you suck.
What's the verdict on MORE wavelengths in devices (I'm looking at one with 7) vs the common 2? Some say more is better, others say NO, more actually dilutes the effectiveness of all of them… I'm conflicted!
Thanks for wasting my time
Waste of time!!!
Total BS, mere sales pitch to sell a paid subscription Chanel 😮
ugh… you gotta be kidding me. What a HUGE waste of time. Used to respect you as a trusted voice in this space after reading your book… But literally who the f puts out videos like this?? This is a completely useless video. Won't be clicking on anything from your channel again and will actually probably mute your channel tbh. Really cheap trick to get more clicks… but I think on the net you are putting off more people than you are enticing. Take this dumb teaser video down, you're doing more harm than good with it.
Nothing, I mean nothing of value is said. He gives except the basics of light and wave lengths and wave penetration. Just another major disappointment from Attia.
I turned 64 this year, and for the past two years, I’ve had a frozen shoulder that made everyday movements—like reaching for a cup—painful. I initially tried a red light therapy small panel from one company, but it wasn’t powerful enough. After switching to the Future Form Official Panel 500, I did two sessions a day (morning and evening) for 10 minutes on my shoulder. It took about five weeks, but now I have almost full range of motion again. My physical therapist was shocked! Plus, my skin looks smoother—something I hadn’t even expected.
Dr. Jack Kruse…
For clarity, the wavelength of near-infrared is longer than of visible red. When looking at red light therapy I was put off by the statement that infrared penetrates deeper because longer wavelengths penetrate LESS. However, I found that the penetration for infrared was affected by other factors, such as greater absorption of red vs infrared in the superficial aspects of the dermis. Secondly, much of the therapeutic effect is thought to be by the impact on blood cells in superficial capillaries, which circulate throughout the entire body. Thus far I have not seen, although they may exist, refereed studies detailing and quantifying these effects.
I'm so happy with my red light panel from Future Form Official! My skin has improved so much, and their prices are reasonable.